June 25, 2012
Alan Watt Blurb (i.e. Educational Talk)
"Battle for Parental Guardianship"
Update on Katerina Jeleva -- Court Case on June 28 for Return of Her Child
Dialogue Copyrighted Alan Watt - June 25, 2012
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Hi folks, I’m Alan Watt and this is Cutting Through the Matrix on June the 25th and this is a special podcast of Cutting Through the Matrix. So, it’s an update to the show that I did on April the 30th about the case of Katerina Jeleva who is a woman in Utah who had her son taken from her by the state and is in an ongoing court battle to have him returned to her. I recently interviewed Katerina to find out the latest developments in the case as she prepares to go to court, once again, this Thursday June the 28th. So, following is the audio interview. I’m also putting up on the website an updated letter from Katerina that gives detailed background information on her case and I’ll put up links about Utah’s CPS, Child Protective Services, database with its false allegations and foster histories; it’s quite a state because there’s so much to do with money scandals and false accusations and so much cover-ups that has been in various newspapers and various articles over the years. But it’s big business, of course, the child snatching business because you have all the different professionals involved who get in on the act, all the different psychologists and therapists, etcetera, etcetera, the law business itself—it’s a growing industry, of course. And wherever you get a growing industry I think decency, honesty, goes out the window and that seems to be the case.
So, I’ll put the following up. This is a printed article along with the audio of the interview and you can listen to it tonight. Remember, the court case is on Thursday and if you want you can contact the various people involved to do with the court case and show that you’re behind, basically, justice being done, for once perhaps, because it’s very difficult for anyone in these kind of cases to get their children back; it doesn’t matter if the judges, as in this case for instance, said that there was no evidence whatsoever, that the specialists involved with sexual abuse cases says there’s no evidence at all, and it doesn’t matter that the judge even recommended that her child be given back. That doesn’t matter anymore in these kind of systems because, as I say, it’s a massive business really, and they don’t like losing, those people who control the business, they love to always win-win-win. And of course if they lose one case it’s obviously going to be followed by more people going the same way and they start losing and they cannot have that since it’s a growth industry and very lucrative; lots of high-paying jobs for those involved in the CPS and the law business in itself.
So, here’s the following interview with Katerina Jeleva:
Katerina: Well, it has already been over 7 months since I’ve seen my son. No evidence, no clear and convincing evidence…protective order has been extended again with no evidence…again. So, as of today, no, I haven’t seen my son and I have been exonerated by all agencies involved…which is DCFS, the Child Protective Services, which has written a report saying that I am not guilty…not only that I am not guilty but that there is no evidence whatsoever of child abuse. As well as the detectives that investigated the case, they said that there is no evidence.
Alan: And didn’t the judge say that too, that she saw no evidence there?
Katerina: Yeah. On the last date that I went to court the judge admonished the counsel of the petitioner, my ex-husband, that they need clear and convincing evidences if they want to move towards terminating my parental rights, which they don’t have.
Alan: Meanwhile too, with the Guardian ad Litem, they’ve been playing games with you too; trying to stop you seeing the son and on the other hand they’re telling you that you can’t get access to see him or even talk to him. So, it’s a catch-22, for you, to make you look bad that you haven’t got in touch with your son, because if you do so you’re breaking a court order.
Katerina: Exactly. And by the way, they used another thing, in one of the documents I got, accusing me of being a bad mother because I missed my son’s birthday for the very first time since he was born…they said that I missed his birthday and I didn’t even call him. Mind you, I am barred from calling him or contacting him in any way— and they said that I didn’t contact him— and I am not so eager to go to jail— and they said I’m a bad mother because I didn’t contact him.
Alan: And that’s what they’d bring in front of the judge, you see; they’d say, well, this woman hasn’t tried to contact her child. And then you’d have to say, well, I can’t do so because it’s illegal!
Katerina: According to the court order. And by the way, I did send an email to the Guardian ad Litem acknowledging that it’s my son’s birthday, and she said nothing. And in the document they sent me, accusing me of being a bad mother because I missed my son’s birthday…
Alan: Yes. It’s a catch-22.
Katerina: Exactly. Exactly. Yes.
Alan: And what else has happened in the meantime too? Didn’t this Guardian ad Litem, Ruder, try to get you to sign your rights away for something?
Katerina: Oh…Yes she did! Well, she tried to bully me into signing – waiving – my rights away as far as medical records go. She tried to tell me that I am “court ordered…” She tried to tell me that I am “court ordered” to waive my rights as far as privileges go, as far as medical records go. And I said, well, actually I’m not and I am not going to sign my rights away, so I didn’t. And she said, well, if you don’t I will not allow the therapy to happen and I will not allow you to see your son in therapy with this therapist. What I did was I modified the waiver and this is how I went around that.
Alan: But didn’t she try to use…I mean, the whole thing is intimidation, as though she were a judge herself—which she is not…
Katerina: …Jury and Executioner…
Alan: Yes! And therefore I’m sure this technique works with a lot of people because they’re scared of law, they’re scared of authorities and it’s a bullying tactic and it’s a deceitful tactic because she has no right to ask you to sign any rights away whatsoever; she’s not a judge…
Katerina: No…
Alan: And even a judge can’t demand that you sign your rights away. So she’s using the color of law to strip you of all your basic rights.
Katerina: Yes. There is actually a... My rights are protected under the Hippa Law, just like, it’s very similar to what you have between your doctor… It’s very, very confidential, you know. The same with between a preacher…A preacher cannot disclose what you disclose between him and you. It’s the same thing. And what she said is that if I don’t do that I will be in contempt, but I was not fooled by that. Other people were and they did sign those papers and they did suffer consequences, unfortunately.
Alan: See, the only way you can give your rights away is to literally volunteer them; that’s the only way you can do it.
Katerina: Yes. And unfortunately, Alan, because your children are at stake, people do that. Because, if I do that, I will not... Actually, what happens, is you do lose them…
Alan: Yes.
Katerina: You do...
Alan: Because that’s all the judge goes by, is really, top and foremost, is whatever you sign comes up as evidence before anything you say verbally; so they go by the signature—absolutely.
Katerina: That’s right…absolutely.
Alan: But, who is in charge of that whole department there at the top?
Katerina: Well, for the most part these people...Unfortunately, they, by themselves…They think they don’t answer to anyone…That’s why they act the way they do. But this particular person, Amber Ruder, has been acting so maniacally…Someone got wind of her actions, and there is a person, the director of the office of the Guardian ad Litem of the State of Utah; his name is Rick Smith. And he approached another attorney of a case that she has been involved in and he does have his information out there for anyone interested. And I don’t know if you want that information.
Alan: Sure, put it up. Why not?
Katerina: I do have it. And for anyone who wants to contact him he does have an email and that email is loriab@email.utcourt.gov And please contact him… And he’s the one who’s basically supposed to govern these people who are rampant in doing whatever they’re doing: breaking up families and acting the way they’re acting…
Alan: They’re like roughriders, they call them—roughriders. They’re left to themselves and it’s almost like no one is supervising them and they’re used to getting their own way. And of course since they are taking public money they’re answerable to the public regardless. And so the supervisor has to answer any complaints put in about any of the staff underneath him and that’s what should happen here.
Katerina: Yes. We don’t own our own children...and we are paying these people to steal our children from us.
Alan: Yeah… And it’s a great business for them too, yeah.
Katerina: Yes. We’re paying for our own chains…
Alan: Yeah, we are.
Katerina: ...as far as children go, as far as property goes; and that’s how far it has gone…It has gone too far….
Alan: Yes, it has…
Katerina: We must speak now or where is it going to go…What’s next?
Alan: Yeah, you’re in chains, everyone’s getting put under lock and key, basically. We’re getting put under agencies, so many agencies, of the government. But when it comes to Family Courts and so on they should be wide open to the public regardless because otherwise they’re called a star-chamber. A star-chamber is where you’ve got a judge and a couple of lawyers and all they do is debate points of law and they don’t care what the outcome is to the people sitting by, the actual victims of all of this, as long as they get paid; they get paid and they can do their little game of points of law and show how clever they are. They forget they’re dealing with real people here, you know.
Katerina: We aren’t people to them; we’re case numbers.
Alan: That’s right…
Katerina: And these aren’t children; these are just…
Alan: Clients they call them…
Katerina: Yes…
Alan: Clients, yeah… And again, that’s a legality, a fiction in itself, because they do the same thing with those with mental problems: they appoint a guardian over them, supposedly, and then they call them “clients.” It sounds better than a “prisoner,” you know. And it gives it a legal sounding term, like a voluntary thing; that they wanted to be a “client” as apposed to the fact that they have no say in the matter whatsoever.
Katerina: Do we have a say? Do we really have a say?
Alan: Not when it comes to this… The big exception with children and “children’s services,” as they want to call themselves, is that whenever a complaint is lodged the child is immediately snatched and then they start looking for evidence afterwards. And there’s a lot of maliciousness involved too from people who want the child (you know, other parties) and then, again, the court system is a merry-go-round that goes on forever and they can even go right back to square one and put the initial complaint in again after it’s all been cleared. Incredible games, because there is nothing humane in law whatsoever. There’s nothing humane in it at all. It’s points of law. It’s their little chessboard and what lawyer knows more than the other lawyer. But the fact is too, it’s a rigged system; it’s a Masonic game, basically.
Katerina: Incredible moneymaker…
Alan: Incredible moneymaker…
Katerina: Bureaucrat after bureaucrat and they all get paid—all of them. And they make reference after reference after reference and you grovel to them…
Alan: That’s what they want. I keep mentioning a movie; it’s called “The Trial” by Kafka. And it goes through the whole court system to show you the absurdity of it all; how it’s really there to sustain itself and how people, who are accused, they don’t even have to know what they’re accused of and yet they go round in circles groping to the next lawyer to the next lawyer and everyone gives them tips, so there’s an even better lawyer. And you go up the chain of lawyers until you’re utterly bankrupt and you’re on your knees asking for anyone to help you. And of course if you don’t have the cash, that’s it, it’s over… It’s a leech, is what it is. But it’s also big business. It’s a growth industry. It’s big, big business.
So what is the next step that you have to go through?
Katerina: Well, the next step is... There’s so many steps and it never ends, does it?
Alan: No…
Katerina: It’s a pre-trial after a pre-trial after a pre-trial and it never ends. For me right now I have to go to a mediation to agree with my ex-husband to something which I’m not going to budge or agree to anything other than to get my little boy back. And if that doesn’t happen then I go to another pre-trial, which is a joke. It really is a joke. So, if that doesn’t happen then I go for a real trial, hopefully. And then I will not agree to anything other than a win.
Alan: A real trial, do you mean by jury, or…
Katerina: Oh, there’s no such thing…
Alan: No such thing, no…
Katerina: As a jury…
Alan: It’s star-chambers…
Katerina: No, no: there’s no such thing as a jury in a family court.
Alan: You understand, this is how it is in China, with all cases actually in China—even criminal cases. They have no juries.
Katerina: Yeah. No jury… No jury in a Family Court. Family Court and a Jury: that’s an oxymoron. There’s no such thing, no, not at all.
Alan: So, it’s simply “superior people” with their “superior” little bits of degrees arguing points of law and you’re sitting in the dark, as you’re supposed to be, and you simply obey them and go away like a good little nobody. Yeah...
Katerina: Yes Sir…Yes Ma’am... And the Constitution in a Family Court is toilet paper.
Alan: Yes. They make their own rules as they go along.
Katerina: Their own rules…yeah…
Alan: So, when do you think the next one comes up?
Katerina: Oh… My mediation is on June 28th and then I have the pre-trial on June 29th. And I hope everyone will contact the court… very much so… I hope they do… Everyone that has a similar problem… Everyone who cares… Everyone who is a parent… Everyone who has a heart and soul… And then after that it’s up in the air, really...
Alan: Yeah…
Katerina: That’s all…
Alan: It’s amazing though, isn’t it, that in a country that pretends that it’s a “first-world” country…
Katerina: Oh we’re not…
Alan: Not at all…
Katerina: Not anymore…
Alan: That really, it’s just like Communist China where, as I say, there’s no juries, the courts are closed for all cases, and you have these superior people… And I watched a video recently where, literally, the peasants were on their knees in front of a judge, pleading, like something out of the medieval period – and that’s what they want here too, because there’s absolutely no supervision, there’s no redress to anything, and they’re so used to now getting all their own way. You understand that all this comes from the laws they’ve signed at the United Nations, under Rights of the Child.
Katerina: Absolutely I do… And this Guardian ad Litem… I really hate even saying that, “Guardian”… it sounds very nice... But this person, Amber Ruder, she asked the judge to give me a gag order so I cannot speak, you know, not even talk about this.
Alan: The First Amendment… it’s the First Amendment… Yeah…
Katerina: First take your child, and then take your free speech and your First Amendment. Fortunately, you know, the judge denied that… So, I am trying to give as much as I possibly can before they take my First Amendment as well… which I am sure they will…
Alan: Well actually, what they do is rather than take it away they’ll simply leave you under a threat that if you go any further you’ll never see your child again. It’s all done by threat and intimidation. That’s how they threaten lots of them if they don’t play the game, “Well, there’s always a chance you might see your child, but if you play this game we’ll make sure that you won’t get that chance.” That’s how it works.
Katerina: Or, I can see him under supervision, which costs tens upon tens upon tens of thousands of dollars, which a lot of parents have contacted me, and that’s what happens… “Pay up… Pay up… and you may see them.”
Alan: How disgusting… Yeah… And what about the kind of work? How has that tied-up your private life? Because you’re working too, but how are you coping with that?
Katerina: I do have to work fulltime – fulltime – for meager wages just to keep up the lights and the shelter, and then after that I have to work fulltime until 1, 2, 3 o’clock at night doing my legal research and doing my legal papers, which is so, so exhausting…
Alan: And that’s pretty well daily too, isn’t it?
Katerina: Every single day, 24/7, representing myself… which is… I will do that, you know, do every single thing I can for my baby… For my little, little son… It’s been very hard… It’s amazingly, you know… My relationship has suffered very much so… My personal finances are devastated. So far I have gotten a lot of support, nationally and internationally… And, very much, thanks to you… And thanks to Brandon… And to all the wonderful people that have contacted me and the court… But it’s… it’s very hard…
Alan: It’s very hard, yeah… So what we’ll do after this… I’ll put this up and I’ll put out the word and also if I can get the numbers, later, to do with this main chief supervisor who should be looking into the shenanigans of certain staff who seem to be, as I say, using color of law to intimidate people and get them to sign their rights away…. That in itself is illegal… It’s dishonest… It smacks of corruption…
Katerina: If we can also put Amber Ruder’s email and phone number, and also Judge Mary Noonan’s email and phone number…. She is a good judge… She is a good judge… And if people can let her know what’s going on… I think she does know what’s going on. If people would take a minute or so…
Alan: That’s right. Well, we’ll do that… And, what we’ll do is keep in touch. Because I know sometimes they play shenanigans with… they’ll slip a court order in and they don’t tell you unless you call the court, literally, every day… You don’t know what…
Katerina: That’s been happening to me and I’ve had to deal with that…
Alan: What happened? Tell the people what happened…
Katerina: Well, that’s what the other lawyer (who has actually been charged with a felony…) he’s like my ex… Who have been charged with domestic violence and his lawyer is also a criminal… Like attracts like. So, they’ve sniffed each other out… So, what the other attorney does is he pretends that I am not representing myself so he keeps sending his documents that he is filing to some phantom lawyer, not to me, just hoping that I don’t get them. Making it even more difficult for me to…
Alan: And therefore, if you don’t turn up at a court hearing that you know nothing about…
Katerina: I almost missed one of the dates by one day… one day… Yeah, I really did… And I put it on the record in front of the judge that I am a Pro Se – I am representing myself, that’s what it means. And he continues to…
Alan: Send them off to phantom lawyers!!?
Katerina: I’m sorry to be that honest but that’s what it is… And some attorneys, that’s what they do… you know… When you don’t have anything going on for yourself you just do dirty tricks…
Alan: So, if you didn’t phone the court everyday you would never know.
Katerina: I have to do that…
Alan: Everyday…
Katerina: On top of my job… On top of my legal research… And then on top of that… It’s very, very exhausting, but… if you want your child back…
Alan: What a trick though… That means if you don’t hear about it because he’s posted it off not to you but to someone else that probably doesn’t exist…
Katerina: And they never call you back… They never forward the mail because they don’t represent you…
Alan: That’s it… That’s what I mean… So therefore you don’t turn up at court because no one has told you and then it looks bad on you; and that’s what they’re after of course.
Katerina: Yes, yes…
Alan: Amazing, eh?
Katerina: And if you don’t show up to court, guess what? The court automatically rules in the other party’s favor because you’re a no-show, right.
Alan: Sure. So, for all those people out there who think that the law system, through all the movies they’ve watched and all the TV series they’ve watched…
Katerina: Oh my goodness, Alan… Movies…
Alan: Yeah… It’s diametrically opposite of what they…
Katerina: Absolutely…
Alan: Jacques Ellul was a great philosopher and he said that everything to do with police work, dramas, movies, and the legal system is all propaganda. It always was and it is propaganda because it’s nothing like the way that they brainwash you into believing. You’re looking for justice here and all you get are dirty tricks— dirty tricks, yeah…
Katerina: And all the judges that can’t sleep at night because they’re so worried about these people that don’t get the right judgements…
Alan: Yeah… That’s in the movies…
Katerina: They look at you and they see an ATM machine.
Alan: Yeah! That’s it! You’re a court-case number…
Katerina: They can’t even pronounce your name…
Alan: They don’t care… They don’t care… No. It’s a conveyer belt of cash.
Katerina: That’s it… An ATM machine, a conveyer belt, a case number… Next case…
Alan: It’s very psychopathic.
So, what we’ll do is, as I say, keep in touch and we’ll keep up on this. And I’ll put this up and mention it during the week as well. And we’ll see what we can do for the upcoming hearings and so on and see if we can add some weight to it, at least get some openness and shine some light into these dark corridors… Okay?
Katerina: We must… We must… Because if we don’t speak now we must hold our breath forever.
Alan: And that goes for many people who haven’t had it done to them yet.
Katerina: Yes.
Alan: Never mind the ones who are going through the same thing, all over the country.
Katerina: Absolutely…
Alan: Thanks for being on, and as I say, keep in touch…
Katerina: Thank you Alan, so much…
Update on Katerina Jeleva --
Court Case on June 28 for Return of Her Child
Welfare in Utah
Spending at a Glance: A Supplemental Report to the
Cost of Protecting Vulnerable Children - Shelley Waters
1) Utah CPS database has false allegations &
foster histories
2) Utah CPS database has false allegations &
foster histories
The Health of Children in Utah’s Child Welfare System
CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES PLAN
Utah Division of Child and Family Services
Federal Fiscal Years 2010-2014
June 30, 2009
First Radio Mention of
Katerina’s May 1st Case (audio starts at 17 minutes)
(April 30, 2012 Alan Watt "Cutting Through The Matrix" LIVE on RBN)
& Transcript
Activist Post Interview/Article
with Katerina Jeleva, May 9, 2012
The latest dirty trick by Amber Ruder
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